Zeke From Hong Kong SAR, PRC, joined Dec 2006, 3627 posts, RR: 49 Posted (3 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3096 times:
Anyone know further about what this article is suggesting, that Boeing is no longer be involved in the C27J production, with the possibility of NG/EADS doing the production in Mobile ?
"The idea is going around, but it's too early to say there are talks," an executive close to EADS said.
"The possibility of assembling the C-27J at the Mobile site has arisen because Alenia recently broke off negotiations with Boeing over managing a facility in Jacksonville, Fla., for the Spartan twin-prop.
That leaves Alenia with an aircraft contract but no factory."
""There are also two other options," he said. "One is to proceed at Jacksonville without Boeing and the other is to await a new proposal from Boeing.""
CX747 From United States, joined May 1999, 4184 posts, RR: 4 Reply 1, posted (3 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3061 times:
An article from last month stated that with our without Boeing, the aircraft would be manufactured in Jacksonville, FL. It would be a tremendously stupid move for Boeing to back out of this deal and allow EADS to manufacture this aircraft in the US.
Is there any chance that Boeing is just playing hard ball?
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
KC135TopBoom From United States, joined Jan 2005, 5394 posts, RR: 35 Reply 4, posted (3 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2778 times:
Quoting N328KF (Reply 3): Anyone want to speculate that the rift here could be related to Alenia's foul-ups on the 787?
and KC-767A
But, I thought there were preliminary with Lockheed/Martin in Marietta, GA on producing the C-27J, along side the C-130J. Have those talks broken down?
N328KF From United States, joined May 2004, 5279 posts, RR: 4 Reply 5, posted (3 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2731 times:
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 4): But, I thought there were preliminary with Lockheed/Martin in Marietta, GA on producing the C-27J, along side the C-130J. Have those talks broken down?
Yeah, originally LMT was the main partner, and that's how the C-27J got much of the same gear that is currently on the C-130J. LMT and Alenia had a falling out and BIDS stepped in. That went south, and that brings us to today. I think L-3 has been involved the whole time.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
By pierre tran
Published: 13 Jul 12:28 EDT (16:28 GMT)
FARNBOROUGH, England - EADS North America has no plans to assemble the C-27J tactical transport plane from Alenia at the planned plant in Mobile, Alabama, said John Young, chief operating officer at the U.S. company.
"We have no intention to assemble the C-27J," Young told journalists at a media seminar July 12 ahead of the Farnborough airshow opening July 14. "There have been no conversations to the best of my knowledge."
The possibility of EADS and Northrop Grumman working on the Italian plane arose after Boeing pulled out of an industrial partnering deal which would have seen the C-27J assembled by the U.S. company in Jacksonville, Fla.
A second EADS executive said there have been no talks with Alenia, which is looking for a solution in the U.S., but EADS is staying cautious and keeping its options open.
(Note: this site requires a subscription so the link may not open.)
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
CX747 From United States, joined May 1999, 4184 posts, RR: 4 Reply 7, posted (2 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2483 times:
I don't have the link to the sight but it seems that Boeing is having a change of heart. One of their higher ups came out and said they were still trying to work through issues and had not pulled out of the deal. Alenia had different feelings though and said that their relationship with Boeing was over.
Supposedly, the issue is over "risk" in regards to the cost of building a production site in Jacksonville. Boeing was balking over the fact that the US Army/Air Force has only signed up for 70+ airframes and that many airframes will not cover the costs.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
KC135TopBoom From United States, joined Jan 2005, 5394 posts, RR: 35 Reply 8, posted (2 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2363 times:
Quoting N328KF (Reply 5): Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 4):
But, I thought there were preliminary with Lockheed/Martin in Marietta, GA on producing the C-27J, along side the C-130J. Have those talks broken down?
Yeah, originally LMT was the main partner, and that's how the C-27J got much of the same gear that is currently on the C-130J. LMT and Alenia had a falling out and BIDS stepped in. That went south, and that brings us to today.
Thanks I didn't know that.
Quoting Lumberton (Reply 6): Subscription site, but this article in Defense News quotes an EADS spokesman as saying there are no plans for EADS to assemble the C-27J at Mobile.
Well, I guess EADS won't let NG bid on this deal, either?
DEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 2781 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted (2 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2137 times:
Quoting CX747 (Reply 7): I don't have the link to the sight but it seems that Boeing is having a change of heart. One of their higher ups came out and said they were still trying to work through issues and had not pulled out of the deal. Alenia had different feelings though and said that their relationship with Boeing was over.
Now, it's Alenia who's having a change of heart.....
Quote: "Alenia Aeronautica chief executive Giovanni Bertoleone has revealed that his company is still in talks with Boeing over joint production of the C-27J Spartan airlifter - little over a month after the company told Flight International that the talks had ended without resolution."
Lumberton From United States, joined Jul 2005, 3452 posts, RR: 13 Reply 10, posted (2 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2010 times:
Quote: Boeing To Help Build C-27 Spartan
Forges Deal With Alenia To Erect U.S. Plant
By tom kington And gayle s. putrich
Published: 21 July 2008
ROME and FARNBOROUGH, England - Italy's Alenia Aeronautica and Boeing have struck a deal to jointly build a C-27J Spartan assembly line in Florida, a senior source at Alenia said July 18.
After months of dogged talks, the two firms on the night of July 17 concluded what another industry source called an "outline agreement," leaving a few issues to be settled.
"An agreement on the investment was reached and now we can start joint industrial activity at Jacksonville," the Alenia source said. "Everything is on course."
Boeing managers involved in the negotiations declined to comment.
Boeing now joins Alenia, the developer of the tactical transport, and prime contractor L-3 in the effort to supply 78 Spartans to the U.S. Air Force and Army under the Joint Cargo Aircraft (JCA) deal signed in June 2007.
CX747 From United States, joined May 1999, 4184 posts, RR: 4 Reply 11, posted (2 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1918 times:
It is nice to see these two companies stop their bickering long enough to sign a contract. Adding another aircraft production line to the US economy is a significant bonus to say the least.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
Quote: "New funding to launch a gunship variant of the L-3 Communications/Alenia C-27J Spartan joint cargo aircraft (JCA) is now being finalized in the US military's budgeting process, L-3 confirms. The AC-27J would serve as a complementary asset for the Air Force Special Operations Command's existing fleet of heavier AC-130 gunships."
It's odd that in comparison, Iraq's fledgling air arm may be equipped with the bigger C-130Js for their intra-theater airlift.....
Quote: "Iraq could be poised to expand its fleet of US-sourced tactical transports under a proposed $1.5 billion deal to purchase six Lockheed Martin C-130Js.
The US Defense Security Cooperation Agency has notified Congress of the possible foreign military sale, which it says involves six US Air Force baseline-standard stretched-fuselage C-130J-30s."
Quote: "The first Alenia C-27J Spartan Joint Cargo Aircraft tactical transport aircraft for the US Army is to be delivered on 25 September by JCA prime contractor L-3 Communications Integrated Systems from its Waco, Texas facility. A second aircraft will be delivered in November.
[.....]
Meanwhile, Alenia North America chief executive Giuseppe Giordo says that Boeing and Alenia North America are looking to seal a long-delayed production joint venture deal by year end: 'We need to finalise legal details, but the principal business agreements have already been reached.'
He adds that the USA is to offer the C-27J JCA through its Foreign Military Sales programme: 'The US DoD has also already received 25 letters of request from foreign countries and we expected to sign the first contract in 2010.'
[.....]
Alenia is forecasting worldwide C-27J sales in excess of 200 units, including 78 JCA versions for the US Army and Air Force and possibly 16 in gunship configuration for the Air Force Special Operations Command. 'Alenia North America expects, in the very near future, to receive additional contracts from the US DoD, that will expand our activities beyond the JCA,' says Giordo."
Quote: "That effort is still in early days, and has yet to bank even a firm contract for a protoype, but itβs something AFSOC is pursuing hard. The C-27J is not stealthy, but it is smaller than existing AC-130s; an AC-27J 'Stinger II' would trade less firepower for the ability to operate from smaller airstrips closer to the action.
Additions are certain to include defensive systems, electro-optical surveillance and targeting turrets, flight and/or ground surveillance radars, weapons, and computerized gun control systems. L3 spokesman Jason Decker has been quoted as saying the AC-27Jβs guns are likely to be between 25mm β 40mm caliber,"
I looked up the original namesake and found these.....
Meanwhile, the Bushmaster on the AC-130 didn't fare so well.....
Quote: "DID β A Spookier Spooky, 30mm at a Time. The experiment sought to install 30mm Bushmaster chain guns in the existing AC-130 fleet, replacing older 25mm and 40mm guns and providing wide commonality with land and naval forces. The 4 concerted aircraft were rolled back to their original weapon set, however, after the Bushmasters displayed accuracy issues when mounted in an aerial gunship."
Curt22 From United States, joined Jul 2007, 281 posts, RR: 1 Reply 15, posted (5 days 19 hours 33 minutes ago) and read 359 times:
Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 14): the Bushmasters displayed accuracy issues when mounted in an aerial gunship
Hum...I wonder what conditions, systems, hardware, software ect might affect weapons accuracy? I don't have to wonder what the DID author thinks, since it appears they would rather place all blame on the Bushmaster weapon and call it a day.
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